Tsilivi Beach Hotel

Well I got back last night after a week in Tsilivi - which I spent months looking forward to!!!

My family have been going to the Tsilivi Beach Hotel now for ten year with the exception of one year when the hotel was having building work done and built a 'friendship' with one of the owners - well so we thought!!!

We booked our flights for September in December 2005 and confirmed by telephone that we were coming. Then when we had our usual two weeks in May of this year we confirmed again, we needed three rooms as we was taking my 84 year old Grandma - Maria said it was fine and knew exactly where we wanted to be.

When we arrived on the 4th we had been placed on different parts of the complex then half an hour later and two trips back and forwards past the pool side and questions being asked by other holiday makes we actually got the rooms we had asked for in the May!!!

Then Wednesday night we discovered money had gone from our rooms and all three rooms - my Nan was cleaned out - now I know most would say we were foolish we had not got safety deposit boxes and I take that on board, even though for the last ten years we have never had one!!! For the fact that someone had gone into two of the rooms open the wardrobe, gone into the suitcases / holdalls and then into the compartments and taken out purses and removed the cash and put it all back as carefully as possible! It's that, that felt like a violation of our privacy!!

The hotel wanted to do their own investigation and advised us we would have to go to Zante town to report it to the police as they couldn't call them for us or bring them to the hotel!!! (The best part is they just didn't seem to believe us) I went that night to see a friend who was so helpful and if it hadn't been for these two women who I  not prepared to name due to the rudeness that Denis and Maria (Owners of the hotel) showed my friends, my family and I would have been stuck!!! They insisted that the hotel call the police and have them come to the hotel. (Best part is the owner’s daughter is married to a policeman so we didn't hold out much hope)

The police came took the details and advised us that we needed to go to the station the following day. My friends picked us up and took my mum, Nan and myself. To be honest it all got too much and because of what seemed like a farce of a legal system my mum was prepared to walk out until I was so annoyed at the phone call that went from the policeman on duty to the hotel.

The hotel said we only had 20euros stolen in total I completely flipped and insisted we stayed we had in total from all 3 rooms the best part of £450 stolen!!!! We eventually left and went back to the hotel again to the un-cooperative help of the owners with Theo and Denis now choosing to treat my parents like they were new holiday makers and not making any polite conversation.

Then the best part Maria told us that out friends were not allowed on the premises AGAIN - my mum politely told her that she would not interfere with our human rights and if we needed either lady to be present to translate then they would be brought on to the complex.

When we asked if she had done her own investigation she replied that she had spoken to the cleaners and they knew nothing - as if they were going to say -yeah it was me - what you going to do about it!!!

Denis made it quite clear that night it was our own fault and that he did not believe us and that we were responsible for our own possessions so we asked a couple of days later ...ok then when your cleaner opens the door and walks from room to room who is responsible the for our possessions when we left everything secure by locking the door? They still insisted that they were not - None of the hotel staff are police checked as they are in the UK or Athens for that matter. So all I would advise holiday makers be wise be careful and most of all don't expect any help from the proprietor.

Part of my job in the UK involves dealing with customers and I am sorry but I believe whether that customer is known to you ten minutes, ten days, ten months or ten years they deserve the same level of treatment and respect and all that grows over time is a relationship of what most would call trust.

Before this I would have recommended the hotel but now I would never return it isn't the theft as I appreciate that can happen any where but I saw a side of those people that I would never want to experience again - rude, arrogant and completely uncaring and approachable.

My father and my Nan are not in the best of health and this could have had series implications and again I would like to send a big thank you to those two friends you know who you are and it's people like you that are genuine and kind and you made our holiday worth while and thanks for helping us find our new accommodation for next year.

we just went into the thomas cook shop in the high st and they managed to get the room for us , this was after being told over the phone by thomas cook that they couldnt do it on there system , just keep on at them and tell them that you wiil go elsewhere !!!!!!!!!!!!! it worked for me  money talks eh !!!!! two weeks next june for £1200 for 4 of us  good luck

 Haliyuala!!!!!!!!!!! four people rooms at the best hotel in tsilivi, it is about time, we will defo be booking for next year, is it advertised in brochure yet, or do you have to wheel and deal abit???, No more admirals for us, whoppee!!!!!!!!, we are going in 3 weeks, defo on countdown now, not going to this hotel this year,  but definatley next year.Anyone any more info on the bigger rooms, please please let me know, also what the price is like for july, thanks.

we have just returned from our honeymoon in Tsilivi.Everything was perfect but maybe a bit too hot, the week we were ther they had an heatwave in greece with temperatures reaching 42 degrees.thankfully we had air con in our rooms which was already payed for by thomascook !!!!!!!

This was one of the best holidays we have ever been to. The hotel is so lovely. We were worried because we had heard alot of bad things about the bed and breakfast accomadation. We went in June this year. But we were pleasantly suprised. Our rooms were lovely and if these rooms are nice we kept thinking what are the self catering rooms like as they are supposed to be much better. The breakfast was lovely too. It never changed but you had a choice they had scrambled egg, boiled egg, bread and jams, cereals, ham and cheese, fruit juice, tea, coffee, fruit and yoghurt. It was so nice. Also having the beach so close and such a lovely beach too. It wasnt deep so very suitable for young children. The staff were very nice and friendly and the food at the boat house was superb. We would definatley go back again. I would recomend this place to anyone. We also went to the Greek night which was the best one we have been to yet. So so good. In fact theres nothing to complain about at all. Lee the rep was such a great help too, very friendly and helped with anything. Happy holidays people.

Dani, could you tell spiros HAPPY BIRTHDAY and to text me my name is danielle, he will know who i am. spiros is the one with the goatee. and will you tell rossi the yung un to text me aswell please!! thank you!! i got bak on monday mornin after spendin 2 weeks there and it is an absolute perfect holiday. the only thing is the room swap at the end if you decide to keep one on.  Thanks again. Hopefully you will get this before you come bak

im there now!so if it is the answer to anyones quietion there is internet access avin great time what a holiday!

Guys;

Second  time  at  the  Tsilivi  Beach  Hotel,  third  time  in  Tsilivi,  going  next  year  too  Hotel  slap  on  the  beach.On  site  Taverna  a  bit  dear - 20yrds  up  the  beach  the  Beach  Tavernas  are  excellent  value  for  meals  and  drinks.

Yes you definately get a bath aswell as a shower in your room , ive been three times now and all the rooms are the same , going back next year aswell .......... cant wait , great for the kids , have a great time !!! 

Yes you do have a fridge in the B&B part of the hotel, which is usually next to your bed but you get used to it. We had a bath/shower in our room so I gather that all the rooms are the same. Hope this helps you.

We've booked to go to Tsilivi Beach in September. We went to Tsilivi least year and loved the resort which is why we've booked to go back. Does anyone know whether you get a fridge in your room when you're B&B? Also, do you get a bath or just a shower? Just need to plan ahead with taking a 2 year old! Thanks.

ive just booked for next year and managed to get a room that takes four of us , that was in a thomas cook travel agent , result !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  what a fab hotel it  the staff was on hand to help

Tsilivi Beach was really nice...i just came home from there on Sunday and really enjoyed it!! its clean, the pool area is good, nice big pool and its right on the beach...

i would definately go again...i recommend it!!

we are going there next month have never been to zante before  would welcome any info you think i would need also what is the weather like in september please looking forward to any help you can give me  

Thanks Steph for letting me know about the internet access. I dont have to go and look for the internet cafes now haha. 6 days to go!!!!!

hi, my and my friends are looking at staying here next year. i've been to tsilivi before and loved it, but im not sure about the location of this hotel. could anyone tell me where it is in relation to some other places?

Hi someone asked whether there is internet access in the hotel.. there is two computers in the reception area both with access to the internet

  Hi jenny, there are no bugs at tslivi, I promise, only the usual mosquito,s, but you get them everywhere, book the holiday, you and your mum will love it, we are going back in 8 weeks, and I am counting the days, we cant wait!!!!, It is totally fab, you have everything you need, and want, just read the reviews, they are all very truthful, we have been quite a few times, and never found anywhere nicer, we just keep going back for more and more, good luck, I hope you decide to book it, let us know.

Hello.... Although i have been to tsilivi beach hotel over ten times in the last 5 years. I am going again this year in two weeks and am wondering if they have internet access in the hotel because i am starting to get tired of going to find an internet cafe to talk to my friends. Can any one help?????? thanks   

   The tsilivi beach hotel and appartments were brilliant, we are just back and found them great.

The staff in the reception were very helpful especially Claudia .

If you are planning a wedding reception try Koukos in the centre of Tsilivi, we've been going to the restaurant for years and have seen lots of wedding parties, they make a real effort to make sure you have a special evening (whether you choose to have it early or late).  A wedding party of that size I think would not be a problem for them. Have a look at their website(there's a contact number on it) and also the feedback of people who have eaten at the restaurant.

What a great place for a wedding, there is a restarant/bar, further up the beach, from the hotel, it seems to do alot of weddings, but i cannot remember the name, it has horse drawn carriages and flowers everywhere, it always looks lovely,and on the beach!!, and only a short walk from the hotel, as for the hotel, well you have 2 pools, a jacuzzi, the beach and sea to choose from, then there is the boathouse, ideal for snacks in the day, then great for the evening meal, they do a fantastic greek night, and a karioke night, with a bloke from manchester, and it is all straight on the beach, how romantic!!!.another good eating place is calipso, there mixed grill, is ENORMOUS, trust me, it has to be served on a chopping board, it is that big, i am surprised no one has mentioned this bar yet,it is fab, it is opposite the paridise bar, it is abit of a walk, but well worth it, the waiters are great.Another must is the laser arena, but dont go dressed up as the dust gets everywhere, it has a great bar, and other things for the kids to do,(bouncy castles)etc,while the adults play war games,we are going back to tslivi in 10 weeks, cant wait, already counting the days, i keep writing this living in hope that the owner will read it , and cater for bigger familys, please please my family could not take another year at the admirals!!!!,hope everyone thats goes here this year has a great time, and loves the resort as much as we do, happy holidays everyone

I am in the process of booking a party of 40+ people in to the Tsilivi Studios for my wedding next year. Thanks to everyone for the info. on the B&B side, we are now going self catering. The Tsilivi Beach Hotel isn't a designated wedding hotel so they don't offer wedding packages. Can anyone forward me contact details for any nice restaurants in the area so that I can contact them regarding hosting my wedding reception? Regards Emma

ps,,, forgot to say, yes you do have to pay extra for air con, but it is worth every penny.

I have just returned from a week at Tsilivi Beach Hotel and i can honestly say its the best hotel ive been to and i have been to Tsilivi 5 times. My boyfriend and i stayed in the B+B accommodation. We had a superb view of both the beach and the pool (we were on the top floor of the hotel) which made our holiday. The rooms were modern and very clean but slightly on the small side. The cleaners came everyday apart from a Sunday. The towels and sheets were changed everyday.The breakfast consisted of bread, cheese,ham,cake,eggs,fruit and cereals all of which were very nice. The room was very quiet, we were never disturbed by outside noises. The pool was great, nice and clean and various depths, there was also a baby pool. I'd say this hotel is perfect for  families and couples. Definatly a 10 out of 10!I'm happy to answer anyones questions about this hotel!

The air-con costs about 30 euros for the week , and yes s/c have them , you`ll have a great time there

Ive been to this hotel now 4 times and i love it there. i think it caters to everyones needs. it realli is worth a visit. Only one prob with it is tht the floors are slippery by the hotel room doors so b careful! x

As far as i know they haven`t got any bigger rooms available , we came back from here last month and are going to have the same problem for next year , think i might book at the appollon hotel across the road and just use the facilities , shame really as we have been here 3 times now and love the place , as for half board i think that the hotel is now available to another tour operator , not british though and they offer half board to their clients , only other way to get around this is to book the room direct and then get your own flights and just squeeze into one room , after all you are hardly in the room for long , good luck .

Hi anyone got any info on whether this hotel now do bigger rooms, ie for 2 adults, 2 kids, I am reading alot about half board, entertaiment for kids, and alterations, which are all new!!!!! it would be great if they did, last year, we had to go to "The Admirals", for this reason, which was not good  ,either that or book 2 apartments, which was way above our budget,anyone got any info, I would be very grateful to know.

yes towels are provided for you so no problems there . you will enjoy this place without a doubt , ive been 3 times and am already booking for next year !!!!!!!

Hi All

It has been two years since we went to this hotel and a lot has changed. The old council block has vanished (see pics)and the have rendered it really nice. They have made quite a few changes but not all are great. I went SC this time because I had an average time in the B&B but if I'm honest the SC room isn't much different if you want to know what's in them give me a shout. I have attached a pic of the kitchenette. The boat house taverna is still outstanding but they were struggling at peak times because the hotel owner has got a little greedy and has started HB for the Germans and Scandinavians which makes ordering food in the evening and lunch time a bit of a nightmare. They have made a few adjustments to the hotels which are great. The B&B side has been totally rendered so the council block is no more and they have a lot more sun beds which is great. Be prepared to pay for most things from reception. They now charge 20 euro a week for things like safety deposit boxes, cots (but there is a way around this so pm me) and air con is 4 euro a day.

They rooms were very clean but the staff use neat bleach and one of the guests nearly burnt there face with their own face cloth because the cleaners wiped near it.

In all this is still the best hotel in Tsilivi for me because of its location and pool.

Any Questions give me a shout.

The bed and brekkie side is not to everyone,s taste, if you get offered a studio, take it, they are only a few years old, these are also facing the pool and sea, the hotel rooms are quite old and small, and when guests see the new studios, this is when problems arise, because their is quite a difference between them (standard wise),but you will not get a better location or resort, it is fab, we have been 3 times, and plan to go again very soon, we were warned not to book the b&b side,my friend had been the year before, 

How can anyone not like it here!!!!  Honestly, you must be very hard to please!!! We have been back twice, and would have gone a third time, but they dont do rooms for 2 adults and 2 kids, that is their downfall,last year we had to go to the Admirals, what a shock to our system that was, it  was cramped, very noisy, the pool was tiny, the rooms very very basic, even by greek standards!! and no AIR CON, never again, we spent most of our day, at this hotel, but it is one hell of a walk from the admirals. Enough about the admirals, back to this hotel,the self catering studios are fab, location does not get any better, and the boathouse is really good value for money, hope danny and his friends are still there, they where all so friendly, I would definatly recommend this hotel to anyone, we loved it, and hope to return very soon, tsilivi resort is the best we have ever been to. 

Second visit here, first in 1999, lots of improvements since then.  Boathouse ok for meals, the Greek night worth it for the food and free wine alone never mind the entertainment.  The location to the beach cant be bettered.  If you  complain about walking through an olive grove to get to  town you would be better of staying back home in the concrete jungle.  The staff if you take the trouble to talk to them are quite friendly, your holiday is what you make it. 

Just returned home from the Tsilivi Beach Hotel.  Had a fantastic holiday.  The location is excellent, right next to the beach and a small stroll to the restaurants/bars.  Had a great night in the Boat House they have a Greek night ever Friday night - really cheap and good fun!  The staff at the restaurant were brilliant with my daughter, she was sad to leave.  They've just started doing entertainment at the hotel for the kids, they were really good, keeping the children occupied whilst we soaked up the sun, also karoke nights etc!! Rooms were clean.  We had a pool view in the new building. The only thing we found disappointing was that we didn't have another bedroom - all three of us slept in one room. It would have been nice to have had the option.  Breakfast was okay - the lady who sits in the corner is just there to take your room number, otherwise anyone could walk in for food.  Food is mainly bread with cheese or ham, eggs, cereal, cake and fruit. You can have as much as you like. It's not fantastic but i'm not a big fan on cook breakfasts anyway! Pool is great for kids with a shallow end.  We've had a great time didn't want to come home - will hopefully return next year!

This was our third time here and we had a great time as usual , we went self catering and i understand Ians comments about the b&b , we did it first time although we had breakfast out most days so it wasnt a problem , our room was well looked after by our maid so i have no complaints there , the boathouse is ok , jay , dj bledi and mr RONALDO , were good with our daughter so that was ok , location is superb , pools are great , only thing we found was the supermarket staff could do with smiling a bit !!! but we will be returning next year as usual , cant wait ... !!!

Although this was my second visit, I made the mistake of taking a room on the bottom row a the back, 402, thye are dark, they do't get any sun and the cupboards are damp. I did inform the receptionist but she wasn't interested, funnily exactly the same response as last year!

The only tour operator to go here is Thomas Cook and they do both self catering and B & B, if there is only 2 of you. then it works out cheaper to go for B & B than in the apartments ?

you will only find this in thomas cook as far as i know , and self catering is a must , most agents have the brochure .

It will be our 3rd year back here this june , definately go self catering though as the rooms are much nicer than the b+b , excellent location , perfect for my young daughter and the staff in the boathouse restaurant are very friendly and helpful , even my father in law didnt moan once about this hotel so it must be good !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! roll on june !!!

i love this place its the best place to stay we so made the right choice, will return in 2006 you try and stop me!!!

hi guys its your very good freinds emma,sally,edna,stephan,rob and kay.

just wanted to say a very big thank you yet again for making it a great holiday. rob and kay send a big thank you to you all for making it a great honeymoon.

sorry didn't spend as much time with you as usually do,thats the problem when you know most of the island places to go people to see, any way we'll be back next year.

leo say hi to to the family for me.(mum sending christmas presants for the kids,don't shout)

danny if you come to england again this winter just let us no and we may come and visit you and your wife.

jay will you say hi to julian and bledi for me and tell julian hes a good friend as well what ever may have happened between us in the past.

theo and maria got some good pictures of you and the little one shes soooooooo cute1

miss you more evrey time i leave, i guess i might have to move back over there for the summer maybe next year not made my mind up yet

love you guys loads

emma xxxxxx

Me and my boyfriend are going to the Tsilivi Beach Hotel on the 24th October.  I believe this is the last week of the season?  Are a lot of things shut down at this time? we want to have a nice time, but not boring.  Also can anything about the weather at this time of year?  We are staying in the Bed and Breakfast. What's it like?!?! thanks a lot

pay more for self catering as bnb side was poor.nothing like picture.not many had a good view either.take ear plugs as at dawn dogs bark right outside.at breakfast its the same all week very basic.staff lovely apart from one in the supermarket,which was under stocked as end of season (oct) didnt enjoy food at the ajoining restaurant went elsewhere,would not return this time of year as weather was not so good storms most nights ,rain,cloudy and loads of flys too.only had 3 good days .

We have just returned (06/10/05) from 2 weeks and have enjoyed every minute.

 hotel was very clean and the staff was always on hand to help

 im going home tomorrow but i will be back next year and i hope to book here again

 zante is such a nice island.  see you all next year

Oops forgot to ask some questions re: the s/catering studios;

Thanks again

I use Pampers nappies and either Heinz or Cow & Gate jars/tins. 

Hi there,

Hi

Hi there, uwanted to know if the supermarkets sell nappies and baby food, most of the shops do and there is a large supermarket down the town (opposite Popeye's, near the cash point) it is a bit like our co-op supermarket. Hope this helps. how long u staying for? We will be there on the 16th for 2 weeks. I'm sure you'll enjoy it Byeeeeeeeeee

We will be staying at Tsilivi Beach Hotel and Studios (self catering) in June 06. My little boy will e 12 months old and I want to know if the local shops/supermarket sell nappies and baby food? Anyone know???? Thanks!

Add your comment have you been towards the end of october? what was the weather like? been told 20 -25 degrees is that right?

We have just returned from a 2 week stay in the Tsilivi Beach Hotel, self-catering.  Our room was quite small, but adequate.  We had a pool & sea-view, which was lovely.  Our room was cleaned every day, with a change of towels, and sheets.  However, we found it to be very noisey, which was a pity. 

great hotel very clean,the only downfall, is they never had anything for kids apart from pool.

 hi danielle thats okay i no u don't mean it in a nasty way but i don't care do u have m.s.n if u do talk to me on   abi51@hotmail.co.uk do u go to zante every year? if so wow u must really enjoy bein in greece like i do get in touch wid me even on abby@abby1.plus.com u can chat to me bye thanx for lettin me no

can anyone please tell me if there is any baths in the b&b apartments  thanks

hey!! its leos girls amanda,fiona,beth and april we love leo the waiter!!! heres some pictures!!

 luv u leo xxx

Can anyone recommend a good hairdressers in Tsilivi? Thank you KB

Hi Richard,

Has anybody got an idea of the name of the two apartments/hotels behind the Tsilivi beach hotel were called? one was right next to a bar with very large screen and the other just across the road. If so any ideas how I could contact them or book?

sorry forgot to add them before please see relivant pics

Pinger I understand what you are saying totally but it was my first time abroad with my fiancée and like the person before said I worked long and hard to go to this hotel. I looked into the hotel on a number of web sites such as www.tsilivi-beach-hotel.gr/. I was looking for a romantic picturesque (see compare pics below to what I was given. and Yes they are my feet a little white but golden brown by the end) and clean room for our £1000+ holiday. Clean we got and I have no complaints what so ever about that but romantic picturesque sea view I didn’t get. I think people will agree when they come back about that. I was also told by the rep at the time that it was tough I get the room I was given and that was that. Yes we had a great time but that was due to the attitude we took. We thought the room we were given may not be what we were sold but it will do and didn’t want to spoil the holiday.

All I am saying is if I had known in advance from a site such as this I would of gone SC because we didn’t eat that often in the hotel due to the great little taverna in site which was brill. Mmmmmm I can still taste the Club sandwiches (with chips as always lol)

Don’t want to put anyone on a downer with so I will tell you that I am very jealous you’re all going this year and I'm not. I'm sure you will enjoy whether you go SC or B&B.

Good luck

This is a great hotel if you go SC but I was a bit disappointed with the B&B side of the hotel because the brochures and web site wont show these because they are very run down in comparison. I understand why B&B was cheaper now. Please see pic.

Could someone help me? What is the name of the villas or apartments behind the hotel? I would love to try there. Or has anyone got a map of the resort?

Hi Aby Knight, you probably dont know me. But were you the one that has blonde hair n was always dancin wif the greek dancer, haha.I think a remember you. And just to let you know, erm Daniel was the Head Waitor not Leo. A dont mean it in a nasty way though. So get in touch with me please thank
   Danielle

This is the second time that we have stayed at this hotel and it will not be the last! The location and hotel are superb, but the hospitality is second to none! A big thankyou to Theo for an excellent holiday (again) and also thanks to Leo, Danny, Jay and Spiros at the Boat House (try the fried bananas and ice cream!) look forward to seeing you all next year 

Just to let ya know we are coming back next year and there will be 8 of us! so even more madness

 Hi, how are you all. Just wanted to say hi to Jay, Daniel, Spiros, Leo and Theo and a big HI to Jak the Barman!! and of course Dennis! Jay - the banana split you made was delicious and Simone and Bethany say you better be there to make their Milkshakes next year. Daniel - Simone says that you need to be there because she needs her Strawberries and kiwi's!! Just to let anyone know that if you are thinking about going to the hotel GO!! its brilliant, i mean what else could you ask for 2 pools, a restaurant right necxt to you with the most fantastic waitors on the planet!!!. Well miss you all loads and loads and loads.My email address is Angel_00946@hotmail.com so email me !! and text of course!!

If any of you read this please contact me thanx!!

the food was great, the waitors were friendly, i miss them all. the bset friend i met was george the greek dancer at the restaurant. although leon the head waitor and the rest of them were treated us like we were part of it all. we didn't stay in the beach hotel and studios because we were in the basic place called admirals hotel, but leon if you read this could you get george to e-mail back to this or you e-mail back because i miss you all

the waitors called leon, jay, spiros and the othert guys were extreamly friendly to me, my mum and my dad, this was every night. the greek dance night was great fun as leon asked one of the dancers george in fact to spin me around i really enjoyed myself, but i am home now which i don't enjoy because i would rather be in zakynthos with the waitors.

just got home from two lovely weeks in the greek sun. didn't want to come home . wanted to stay there with leon, jay, spiros and all the mental waitors at the boathouse we loved it . hope loen you miss me loads . hope you can get george in touch with me on this mail addy please . hope you all miss me loads coz i miss you all loads and loads

My boyfriend and I have just returned from 2 weeks at the tsilivi beach hotel and had a great time.   The hotel was very clean, the pools great and the sea right on your doorstep.  The hotel bar and restaurant had a large varied menu and the prices were cheap, eg. cheeseburger and chips £1.80 and mousakka £3.  The waiters/bar staff have a great sense of humour, just not so sure about their karaoke efforts!!!  The rooms were adequate, only moans were the plastic undersheet on the bed which sometimes left you sleeping in a pool of sweat and a noisy fridge right beside the bed.  All in all would definitely return when the airport has finally been updated to a reasonable standard.  The procedure at the current airport has you queing in the sun for 3 hours to check in your luggage and get through passport control.  Apparently we were not unlucky on the day we flew home, it is the norm.